ARF Bureau representative, Hrant Margaryan, appears as guest on “Ararat TV” “Interview” segment

The topics of the segment today are the upcoming snap parliamentary elections and external threats. Our guest today is Armenian Revolutionary Federation Bureau representative Hrant Margaryan.

–Ararat TV: With a few days left for the [snap parliamentary election] campaigning to begin, what preparations are currently underway in the ARF and what tactics will be chosen to implement this unique campaign and elections?

–Hrant Margaryan: We are going to campaign in a way that is specific to us. We will activate our ranks, our structure, organization and due to the fact that the campaign period is extremely short, we are going to try to utilize our organizational capabilities. The structure should work so that we succeed. In my opinion, only mobilization will succeed because using logical words in the next ten days will not create an atmosphere, change the mentality, or persuade [the voters].

[AT] You will not be competitive in the current conditions if you were to run a classic campaign. You are saying, a campaign typical to you [the ARF], does that mean that it will be the same as in previous elections?

[HM] Some think that the correct way to campaign is by only opposing [the current government], others think that they will reach a certain level of success by riding the highs of a large wave, but we are not going to proceed that way. We will clearly tackle our problems, in a precise and direct manner for our people; and we hope that the people will treat us similarly. The issue is that we have not been dealing with people in the [corrupt] relationship; we have not dealt with an unchanging system, fraud, and pseudo popularity. We have not been guided by that. We have said things that we have understood; the people will not love it, do not like it. We have said that we should not give up. We have to say that we should not give up on Karabakh’s struggle, while also realizing that a very important part of our nation will not accept that because they have a child, a son, of military age.

[AT] Are you saying that we should not yield on the Karabakh issue because we are seeing clear challenges?

[HM] Yes, naturally.

[AT] Until when will you be sincere to those who elected you [ARF], Mr. Margaryan?

[HM] We have always been sincere for the last 28 years, and not only for the last 28 years but during the last 128 years; and we will be sincere until the end, there is no other way out. We are different from all the other political parties in one area: the other parties have an issue with succeeding in the current time, to be able to register a victory in the present. Whereas we have an issue with continuous success. We should not do anything that causes the next generation, for the next generation of ARF members to feel ashamed.

[AT] Mr. Margaryan, nowadays is it not fashionable to be principled? You, yourself will attest to it.

[HM] We are so great that we do not follow what is stylish or fashionable, we are that great that we will only follow our national and country’s interests, regardless of the fact of what is being evaluated in the current period. Regardless of everything, we will remain loyal to our people, our country, our land, and Armenians. We will remain loyal because it is our essence, that’s who we are. We will not be doing everything to gain votes, we will do everything to do our best to ensure our people’s conscious vote.

[AT] But was it the conscious vote that was recorded during the Yerevan municipal elections or were those different elections, Mr. Margaryan?

[HM] I think that during the Yerevan Municipal elections, the conscious vote was not recorded.

[AT] What hope do you have for the snap parliamentary elections? As in, what has changed in the past month?

[HM] Yes, I know that there is a danger, there is a danger, that in the coming days, fake agendas will be created, there will be new arrests, the atmosphere will become stressed, and that will take it in another direction. The issue is that this election is not the only goal in our lives. We may not have a good result today, but I’m sure, that in 3 months, 6 months later, 9 months later or a year later we will have good results. We are that organization: serious, loyal. We are not working for today. We are not working for Armen Rustamyan to become Prime Minister. That is not the goal of our lives.

[AT] But our people like the announcements that are done on a whim, Mr. Margaryan.

[HM] I think that the same people can judge who is serious, consistent, principled, stable; the people and this homeland’s child. Our people can recognize this. They criticize us and frequently say that we live in a fantasy land and such, but they respect us. They respect us because they know that we are patriotic; they know that we will never betray the interests of our people. They know that this is a serious and important issue and this is the greatest achievement that the Dashnaktsutyun has gained. That may not become a vote at a given time, but one day it will definitely become true and they know that we are serious in this issue, and this is the most important thing, and this is the greatest achievement that the Dashnaktsutyun has brought. That may not turn into a vote today, but one day it will definitely become an attitude and status creator.

[AT] You said that there will be arrests made, they will catch some people, and that they will let some people go. For the authorities, the events of March 1^st are under a magnifying glass. Throughout this entire time, we are seeing multiple press releases, announcements from the head of the Special Investigation Service of the Republic of Armenia, the Prime Minister’s announcements. In the beginning, [Pashinyan] announced that it will be revealed, but we have not witnessed that complete discovery. Is it possible that arrests will be made during this campaign?

[HM] I do not rule out that it [March 1^st] has become a subject of political manipulation.

[AT] And the most dangerous thing is that the people like it.

[HM] Yes, a portion of the people do like the fact. But I think that with each day, a portion of the people has become worried, disgruntled, disappointed for what is happening in this country. Recently, on one occasion I said that we are trying to make a reality that we see all of our people as criminals. All the different layers [of people] that have been subjected to unlawful acts, under the influence of circumstances, under the influence of the situations or the atmosphere, were enlarged and brought to the foreground, and used to begin to intimidate people. If you are a village mayor, if you do not work in such a manner, if you do not vote for this person, if you work with this force, only then will we work with you. If you are a school principal it is the same, a teacher the same, an official again the same. And this is an important part of our people. What I’m saying is not for those individuals who have participated in large-scale robbery. Naturally, none of the large-scale looters should be forgiven and everyone should be held accountable.

[AT] No one is imprisoned today, Mr. Margaryan.

[HM] I know, in this respect, I have no issue. And as for March 1^st, the problem is much more serious. Okay, how many years have passed since the events of March 1^st, but our people are constantly in a hostage state of mind. The former [authorities] judged the current powers, the present [authorities are] judging only the former [authorities]. And this does not inspire belief that eventually what is the truth will be disclosed. The real information should be disclosed and that chapter should be closed; the wound should splurge among the people. It cannot always remain a wound on the body. It is a wound, but to cure this wound, you need another means of treating it. Perhaps the right thing to do is to appeal to an international independent body to conduct an impartial investigation and investigate not only Robert Kocharyan but also Levon Ter-Petrosyan, Nikol Pashinyan and for all the perpetrators of crimes to be really held responsible for their crimes. And when the question is raised, accusations are made that contain many things in interpretation, a subjective interpretation. It is surprising because for these accusations [of crime], in one situation today’s authorities view it as a crime and in another situation not a crime. These are the problems in which I think that the patience of our people is already being abused. Fortunately, during March 1^st we were not on either side. And we [the ARF] were the force that predicted the events of March 1^st and tried everything to prevent them from happening in order to not sacrifice our country on a path of failure, but we did not succeed. We are not on this side, but we are also not among the guilty, but we have the expectation that finally the truth, the real information, should be revealed. And the truth will be revealed only through an impartial judicial system.

[AT] International experts: Yesterday, on this same show, David Shahnazaryan said the same words, that an international body needs to be created to examine the information in order to inspire faith. In your statement, you said that revenge should not be taken using the events of March 1^st. He [Shahnazaryan] also blames Nikol Pashinyan for using March 1^st for his political goals. Do you agree with that view?

[HM] I have not watched the segment.

[AT] When you say revenge should not be committed using March 1^st, what do you have in mind? Who is Nikol Pashinyan seeking revenge from?

[HM] I think Nikol Pashinyan is trying to use the issue and to use the circumstance for political reprisals. I’m saying that people do not believe in this judicial system. No matter how much Nikol Pashinyan wants to swear that he is not involved in the judicial system, but for me and citizens like me, it’s clear that if in a judicial system when 11 judges examine the issue of people who committed a crime and everyone is freed, but on the other hand, in a similar case that same judicial system reviews a case and nobody is released, it means that the judicial system is being dictated [in their decision making]. There may be naysayers, but this is the reality. The judicial system is guided by the fact that they [Pashinyan] say that we are not interfering, and as long as this is the case, no one will believe it, nothing will be believed. And we need the truth. I am not interested in this issue; I am only interested in the fact that I want the truth to be revealed. I have not heard what David Shahnazaryan has said, but the logic tells me the only thing in these conditions that can reveal the truth and inspire confidence and thereby allow for this page to be closed forever is an internationally impartial, unbiased instance to be engaged for this issue. Unfortunately, we have not been able to create a situation where the events of March 1^st are not only a situation where the previous [authorities] criticize those who are the present, and the current [authorities] not judge their predecessors, not allowing for the truth to be disclosed.

[AT] Margaryan, what external challenges are facing our country today? What are the threats?

[HM] There is still the most important question.

[AT] Karabakh, Artsakh’s issue?

[HM] Yes, but it stems from our foreign policy. In other words, what are we pursuing with our foreign policy? On the one hand, it seems that we pursue a goal to settle the relations between us and Russia on a logical basis, on the other hand, silently, but actually not so silently, to change orientation, to change sides, to go on a color revolution, these are the two [most important] of them. This is the question for me. I want to believe that the effort that is going on in order to correct relations with Russia and to build a dignified relationship, create a relationship that is in our interests, would be productive. That should be convincing in its logic. It’s a concern for me, I do not know, but I suppose it’s true, if I say that ammunition has not entered Armenia since May.

[AT] That is a very responsible statement [to make].

[HM] Is that a condition that will affect the future of Karabakh, or not? We are a people that have been in war, we are a country that has been in war, who is going to give an answer for this? Finally, the foreign diplomacy means success; success to defend our rights, success to defend our security. Is the foreign policy successful and am I able to see our interests protected?

[AT] Nikol Pashinyan says that relations with Russia are brilliant.

[HM] They say [they are] brilliant, but are they brilliant? They are brilliant, but ammunition does not enter Armenia. They are brilliant, but you can see that he has a personnel policy, which is completely anti-Russian. Until yesterday, people with anti-Russian sentiments have been appointed to key posts [in government]. I am not saying that we should be in despair over relations with Russia. No, no. A person in my organization [ARF] cannot say anything along those lines. We are not convinced of that being the truth, but we believe in one thing: are our interests ensured? I’m not talking about Russia’s interests, I’m talking about our interests. If we are aiming to correct our relations with Russia and are paying for it: we send peacekeepers to Syria, we allow the Russians to come here and purchase American companies. We do things that are characteristic of a subordinate, and not an equal. On the other hand, we send 4 doctors to participate in NATO exercises; where are our interests in these? I do not know, these are illogical steps. [In] the CSTO case, even though the President of Belarus and the President of Kazakhstan are unfair, wrong and incorrect, no matter how much we say it, but are we able to succeed there? Diplomacy is that we are able to advance our interests, not to create conflicts; by creating conflicts we are creating difficulties to further Armenia’s interests. Diplomacy, politics, is the means by which we must be able to succeed. I’m starting to suddenly even think maybe the conflict is deliberately created because perhaps the last goal is to move towards the West. It’s not a banned question for me, it’s not taboo, but when we crossing the canals we should not change horses. We are in war. We need to know the answer to this war. Let me add that the West will extend us a hand using Turkey.

[AT] Using Turkey?

[HM] How else are they supposed to do that? They will be using Turkey to extend a hand to us. One time I told the [former] United States Ambassador [to Armenia] that we are not an anti-American side, but due to the fact that the hand that you extend towards us is Turkish, we will not be able to shake it.

[AT] Mr. Margaryan, when Bolton came to Armenia he said that the snap parliamentary elections will resolve all the չոմպլըզ issues. Speaking from the past templates [of diplomacy] it is also a great time for the conflict to be resolved. As in, following your worried thoughts – what future awaits us after the snap elections? Let us make our conclusions.

[HM] You do know that it is not only Bolton’s statement? The United States ambassador’s [Mill’s] statements prior to his leaving…

[AT] Mills, yes.

[HM] It is not a coincidence; Bolton’s statement was not a coincidence. A few months ago when there was still nothing happening [in terms of a call for snap elections], the United States ambassador spoke to political հորչըս and said that we [US] do not understand why you are not holding the snap parliamentary elections immediately? Isn’t that what the public is requesting? Before [the snap elections were] called for by the political powers or the public, that was the idea of the US Embassy. This is an extremely important issue. I do not know why the December 9^th elections must happen so hastily. Hopefully, this is justified by the fact that day-by-day Nikol Pashinyan’s rating is falling, so the sooner the election the better the outcome will be [for him]; because he sees that there is no positive change in the economy and that change will not occur in the coming months and we will have a difficult winter. So, [Pashinyan] scheduled it in December so long as the wave [of popularity] is at its highest and he can record good figures. Hopefully, that is the only reason [for the snap elections]. But I have serious reasons to worry about us facing difficult days [in the future]. We will have difficult days. In my previous interview, I spoke about the Nakhijevan border. I know that [Pashinyan] is active, often going to Karabakh, visiting the soldiers, and making good speeches.

[AT] But we are forgetting about the Nakhichevan issue.

[HM] All of this is not putting a soft cushion under my head because I also see the serious dangers. One of those serious dangers, as I said before, is not receiving any ammunition since May. One of these serious dangers were the statements made by Bolton; the real danger is that currently, the situation in Nakhijevan is not good. This is a serious concern. God, I hope that I am wrong but I do not have the right to lean back, fold by hands and sit down because I can respect the sympathy of 70% of the people, but the Karabakh issue for me is the meaning of life.

[AT] It is our security issue.

[HM] And we as an organization will not allow for Karabakh to pay for the change in political direction. We will not allow for a color revolution, as it did in Ukraine paying with Crimea, George with Abkhazia, for Armenia to pay with Karabakh. We will not allow for that to happen because Karabakh is much, much more important to us than Crimea was to Ukraine, or Abkhazia to Georgia. This is a matter of our existence. I am saying it again, I pray to God that I am wrong and my entire presentiments will not turn into a reality. But I do not have the right to fold my hands and sit, I must be careful, aware and alert, I must be active. I must be careful and by providing good advice not allow for what we deem would otherwise happen. When I was speaking with Nikol when he was in prison, I said that we should not pay this price [with Karabakh].

[AT] And what was the response, if there was one?

[HM] He agreed with me. I cannot deny it. I hope that he agrees with me today too. But his steps must use that same logic, he must have a personnel policy, make political gestures, have political relations tactics, and they must be in line with each other. Otherwise, everything will be artificial.

[AT] Mr. Margaryan, is it a fact that there has been no armament supplied since May?

[HM] According to the information, as far as I know, yes.

[AT] Thank you, this was a serious conversation, but having serious problems we must speak about them.

[HM] The state of the country is bad, so the difficult conversation is more realistic.

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